QnA
Interview | October 29, 2024
Dr. Ranjan Chakrabarti is an esteemed figure in pharmaceutical R&D, having served in pivotal roles such as Vice President at both United States Pharmacopeia-India and Dr. Reddy's Laboratories. Throughout his career, Dr. Chakrabarti focused on drug discovery, biologics, and global healthcare collaboration, contributing significantly to the field with his strategic insights and leadership. Holding a PhD in Biochemistry from the University of Calcutta, his expertise has been instrumental in fostering advancements in drug development and manufacturing. Dr. Chakrabarti's legacy continues to influence the healthcare sector, reflecting his deep commitment to improving global health outcomes.
Pharma Now: Good Afternoon, Dr. Ranjan Chakrabarti. Thank you for joining us at Pharma Now.
Dr. Ranjan: Good afternoon! I'm very happy to be here with you.
Pharma Now: On a personal note, I'm very inspired by your journey and your various achievements. But, what fascinates me the most is that you are one of the first people to bring drug discovery to India. Can you tell us what your journey has been like?
Dr. Ranjan: Yes, of course. So, one of the things that I’ve always thought is: I have done what most people didn’t do. I completed my master's degree in biochemistry. If I'm not wrong, I was in the second or third batch of Master in Science - Biochemistry in India, which I completed from Calcutta University. In those days, most people used to opt for chemistry. Chemistry was very hyped because jobs were available because multinational companies used to hire chemistry graduates from India.
Pharma Now: So, what made you decide to not go via this traditional route and choose a field that is so new?
Dr. Ranjan: In those days, Indian newspapers didn’t provide much information and TV was not there. So, I used to read international papers and other things at the US Consulate. There, I found a very interesting field: the mixture of chemistry and medicine. That's how I started biochemistry and went abroad. There, I held a pretty good position and had a fantastic career in the drug discovery field.
Then, I decided to come back to India and see what happens. All my friends disagreed with me because many people in similar fields struggled in India and spent their entire lives struggling. We used to call professors and researchers “glorified postdocs”. Thankfully, I was in a much better position than the researchers and professors in India because I worked in Boston where professors were involved in the advisory committee of multinational companies.
I also worked with some very famous research groups studying metabolic disorders and their abilities over metabolism. So, I didn’t have any problem getting grants from organizations like the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Still, despite this success, I decided to come back to India. Here, I started the field of drug discovery.
Pharma Now: Your journey of starting the biochemistry and drug discovery field is very intriguing. From what I understand, you also faced a lot of criticism, can you share this journey with us?
Dr. Ranjan: At that time, I had a partner: Dr. Anji Reddy. Dr. Anji Reddy started the drug discovery field in Dr. Reddy’s. There were a few visionary people in India who started the drug discovery field, but of course, they faced criticism. Dr. Reddy’s became famous because of the rapid increase in its share value. So, people thought, “Oh Dr. Reddy’s has a lot of money, that's why Dr. Anji Reddy wants to invest in drug discovery, but nothing will come of it!”
We took this as a challenge. We worked hard in the area and, ultimately, started it. We were not the first company to sell the drug in the market, but we were the first to out-license the drug and the first to make sales in the U.S. and do the first clinical trials.
Pharma Now: These are huge achievements indeed. How did your experience at Dr. Reddy’s shape you? Did you have a different perspective when you switched?
Dr. Ranjan: When I was in Dr. Reddy’s, I saw how multinational companies work and why they succeed in drug discovery and why they fail. So, from there, I moved to the U.S. Pharmacopeia. When I moved to the U.S. Pharmacopeia, I was in charge of the global group: their labs in China, Ghana, the U.S., and India. I saw the difference: how people work differently and how their cultures are different. I also got opportunities to visit Asian countries that had made significant contributions in drug discovery, especially China, Korea, Japan, and Singapore. After these experiences, I clearly understood where we were lacking and why they were ahead.
Pharma Now: That must have been an enriching experience. From what I understand you’ve retired from the U.S. Pharmacopeia. So, what endeavors are you taking part in now?
Dr. Ranjan: After retiring from the U.S. Pharmacopeia, I started working as a consultant with a few groups. I am helping different organizations—including the government—build an ecosystem. Also, I'm working very closely with academics for skill development because that is a big issue in our country, unlike China or other Southeast Asian countries. Unfortunately, getting highly skilled people is not easy in India. So, I am spending some time teaching students in institutes. I’m also associated with many research councils and helping in their research activities.
Pharma Now: You’ve brought up an interesting point: Our students and graduates don’t have the skills we need to develop this field and become a leader. But, we have a very comprehensive education system, so what are we missing?
Dr Ranjan: I think we need to do something different fundamentally to be a leader in innovation. Yes, we are doing a great job in terms of GDP. But, in terms of innovation, we are still behind others. I believe we're likely in the top 20 or 50 most innovative leaders, and the same rankings apply to our universities. When you look at the top 100 universities in the world, they’re ranked based on their research, not the number of graduates or PhDs.
We have exceptionally talented students, but research truly defines the rankings of top universities. We are actually feeding other international universities. Our studies who belong in IITs are moving to the U.S. and European universities and are doing fantastic jobs there. They are the top rankers. From there, they go straight to whichever pharma or IT company hiring them.
Today, the CEOs of so many top companies are Indians. So, this is where I think we are losing out. The basic difference is that this present generation is not our generation. For the current generation, the ecosystem and work environment are also very important, not only their salary. You cannot just hire them by only offering a huge salary. If they are not mentally satisfied, they will not stay. That's what is lacking in our country and that's why most of our best students go abroad.
As I have worked in many nations, I can say: it is very difficult to get that environment here. It's been 27 years since I came back to India. Still, we are nowhere near creating that kind of environment for our students and professionals. The work environment in other countries is totally different, and these are a few things we need to change. Innovation cannot happen with that typical mindset or career path–you know: MSc, PhD and then the industry job. You need people who think out of the box.
Pharma Now: I understand, and I think a lot of people will agree with you. But, I’d like to circle back to your decision to come back to India and join Dr. Reddy’s in 1995. There, you took a very unique decision: to start drug discovery. So, can you share how that went?
Dr. Ranjan: In those days, the challenge was the biology field. The chemical field in India was very well established. For example, at the time (1995), if I ordered something in my lab in the U.S. in the evening, it would be delivered by the next morning. Here, it would take one week. Similarly, for biological samples, temperature maintenance is very important. So in those days, I used to order enzymes, and after seven days, they would be delivered. I would open the box, there was no ice, all water and my enzymes were floating in that water. Can you imagine: my seven days are wasted! So, in such a competitive field, when you lose seven days, what is the point? That was the situation there in 1995. Similarly even for animal studies that we need to do in drug discovery. But, there used to be no good lab here to get good quality animals.
Pharma Now: Being a pharma person myself, I can’t imagine how difficult it would have been. So, how did you tackle such problems?
Dr. Ranjan: So, in Dr. Reddy’s, we started breeding our own animals. It was all because of Dr Anji Reddy. He said, “Yeah, go ahead. I’ll have to set it up, but I’m ready to set it up. You guys do it [animal breeding] here.” So, in those days, we used to import animals from Jackson Labs as the core colony. I used to go to the airport to collect them. We used to bring them, start breeding them, and propagate the colonies. So, after a while, I had enough animals for experiments.
Even getting these animals was a huge task. They [airport staff] used to pull the carts and throw animals on the tarmac. In the first few shipments, half of the animals were dead before they arrived at our facility. I thought, This is too much because this is a criminal offense–you are killing these animals!
So, this is the way we had to do our research. To be frank, I used to think many times “why the hell did I come back here?” But today, I am happy. We suffered a lot, but today, at least we have built a system where biological research can be done. All these biologics that you see today, they would never have been possible if this ecosystem and supply chain were not properly built.
But, I think that there is an issue. In China or Singapore, all raw materials are available there, they are making them, and very few are imported. But, in our country, everything has to be imported. That's why we had so much trouble during COVID, we had to import everything. So, if there is a disruption in the supply chain, we are in serious trouble. That is where we are lacking.
Thankfully, the government has started now to look into this aspect for pharma and biopharma. The Department of Biotechnology and Department of Pharmaceutics are actively working in this area to sort it out.
Pharma Now: I have a question. The Government is taking a lot of efforts and the ecosystem has been set up. But, do you think the new generation needs to shift their thought process toward innovation and R&D? Nowadays, India is considered as a service industry, we all are focused on providing a service and getting a lot of money from the service. Do you think we need to shift our mindset for achieving innovation?
Dr. Ranjan: I have had a lot of discussion on this topic with students and professors of IIT and other places. So, there are two things: First is tunnel vision. The first thing my students ask is, “Now you are teaching us this subject. We'll pass the course. Then, where will we get internships and how can we get a job?” So, that's tunnel vision, typical tunnel vision. So, we need to break out of this mindset. The second thing is support. In India, we have very bright students who have access to a lot of information—using mobile phones of course. But, when you have such students, we have to provide them an environment to grow. We also have to tell them, “yes, we can provide you an environment where you can work and innovate”.
Pharma Now: I think this will change slowly. I’m sure since you’ve come back you’ve seen a large shift. I think this will help us move up the value chain.
Dr. Ranjan: We cannot go up the value chain in any field easily. In any field, if you want to go up the value chain, you have to have an innovative product that gives you money and recognition. Recently, in one of the Council of Scientific & Industrial Research Institute and the Research Council meetings, the Secretary of the Indian Government said that our Prime Minister wanted each of the central labs to come up with one idea or one product that will bring global recognition—like Chandrayaan. So, you know this is a slow process, but we’ll surely see more change.
Pharma Now: Yes, fingers crossed, but I’m sure our scientists and leaders and young minds will definitely come up with products that will make India stand out. Do you think we’re tackling the same problems as others?
Dr. Ranjan: Yes, and no. Most people are obsessed with technology. They think: what techniques will I use in biopharma? Which techniques can I use to understand the primary structure or glycosylation? But, we need to look beyond this.
In any meeting with an FDA representative, they discuss one major issue: Data integrity. Data Integrity means you are hiding what you're doing wrong, which not only gives a bad impression of that organization but also of the country. But, have you heard of any universities discussing this topic?
So, whenever I talk to the students, I tell them to avoid the ongoing craze among the companies which is “batch release”. You can somehow manage it today, but it will be identified somewhere down the line, and you will get caught. In this case, young people have to stand up and say, “No, I cannot sign” because at the end of the day, the technician signs, then the manager signs, finally the Director VP signs. I have faith in this generation because they are not scared to tell you to your face if they don't like something. If they think something is not wrong, they should correct it there itself.
Recently, in a conference, our DCGI was talking about two groups. One group was the top 20 companies whose whole culture is like multinationals because they deal only with them. They don't care about DCGI guidelines. They follow them because it helps them to get through DCGI. But in the second group, there are other 200 companies. Over there, it is a serious issue. Seeing one after another cases, I mean, it's a shame, and these things actually affect even the students. So, bright students think, “Where shall I go? These places where I have to live in this kind of environment?” And then another issue is the culture. Today, the academic culture is changing, but still many of our academics have this thinking, “whatever the professor says, that's it, you can't protest the professor”.
Because I worked in Boston and I tell you: in any meeting there, we used to have 15-20 nobel laureates. A first year student could stand up and tell them if he doesn't like any data and nobody will say, “I’m a nobel laureate and you’re criticizing my data.” This concept is not there. You are a scientist, and scientifically, you have every right to criticize the data, and if you're wrong then I will convince you and I will tell you why you are wrong. This is the culture for innovation.
Pharma Now: I agree. I think slowly, things will change and we’ll also have an innovative mindset.
Dr. Ranjan: I think, now is the time for India. We should correct these loopholes, and then nobody can stop us. Our students are going all over the world and developing those countries. So, why can’t they do it here? The only thing we lack is the environment and culture.
Pharma Now: Yes, I agree. I also think we’re slowly creating a culture that’s open to innovation, change, and flexibility. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us Dr. Ranjan. It was an honor speaking with you on behalf of Pharma Now.
Pharma Now: Good Afternoon, Dr. Ranjan Chakrabarti. Thank you for joining us at Pharma Now.
Dr. Ranjan: Good afternoon! I'm very happy to be here with you.
Pharma Now: On a personal note, I'm very inspired by your journey and your various achievements. But, what fascinates me the most is that you are one of the first people to bring drug discovery to India. Can you tell us what your journey has been like?
Dr. Ranjan: Yes, of course. So, one of the things that I’ve always thought is: I have done what most people don’t do. I completed my master's degree in biochemistry. If I'm not wrong, I was in the second or third batch of Master in Science - Biochemistry in India, which I completed from Calcutta University. In those days, most people used to opt for chemistry. Chemistry was very hyped because jobs were available because multinational companies used to hire chemistry graduates from India.
Pharma Now: So, what made you decide to not go via this traditional route and choose a field that is so new?
Dr. Ranjan: In those days, Indian newspapers didn’t provide much information and TV was not there. So, I used to read international papers and other things at the US Consulate. There, I found a very interesting field: the mixture of chemistry and medicine. That's how I started biochemistry and went abroad. There, I held a pretty good position and had a fantastic career in the drug discovery field.
Then, I decided to come back to India and see what happens. All my friends disagreed with me because many people in similar fields struggled in India and spent their entire lives struggling. We used to call professors and researchers “glorified postdocs”. Thankfully, I was in a much better position than the researchers and professors in India because I worked in Boston where professors were involved in the advisory committee of multinational companies.
I also worked with some very famous research groups studying metabolic disorders and their abilities over metabolism. So, I didn’t have any problem getting grants from organizations like the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Still, despite this success, I decided to come back to India. Here, I started the field of drug discovery.
Pharma Now: Your journey of starting the biochemistry and drug discovery field is very intriguing. From what I understand, you also faced a lot of criticism, can you share this journey with us?
Dr. Ranjan: At that time, I had a partner: Dr. Anji Reddy. Dr. Anji Reddy started the drug discovery field in Dr. Reddy’s. There were a few visionary people in India who started the drug discovery field, but of course, they faced criticism. Dr. Reddy’s became famous because of the rapid increase in its share value. So, people thought, “Oh Dr. Reddy’s has a lot of money, that's why Dr. Anji Reddy wants to invest in drug discovery, but nothing will come of it!”
We took this as a challenge. We worked hard in the area and, ultimately, started it. We were not the first company to sell the drug in the market, but we were the first to out-license the drug and the first to make sales in the U.S. and do the first clinical trials.
Pharma Now: These are huge achievements indeed. How did your experience at Dr. Reddy’s shape you? Did you have a different perspective when you switched?
Dr. Ranjan: When I was in Dr. Reddy’s, I saw how multinational companies work and why they succeed in drug discovery and why they fail. So, from there, I moved to the U.S. Pharmacopeia. When I moved to the U.S. Pharmacopeia, I was in charge of the global group: their labs in China, Ghana, the U.S., and India. I saw the difference: how people work differently and how their cultures are different. I also got opportunities to visit Asian countries that had made significant contributions in drug discovery, especially China, Korea, Japan, and Singapore. After these experiences, I clearly understood where we were lacking and why they were ahead.
Pharma Now: That must have been an enriching experience. From what I understand you’ve retired from the U.S. Pharmacopeia. So, what endeavors are you taking part in now?
Dr. Ranjan: After retiring from the U.S. Pharmacopeia, I started working as a consultant with a few groups. I am helping different organizations—including the government—build an ecosystem. Also, I'm working very closely with academics for skill development because that is a big issue in our country, unlike China or other Southeast Asian countries. Unfortunately, getting highly skilled people is not easy in India. So, I am spending some time teaching students in institutes. I’m also associated with many research councils and helping in their research activities.
Pharma Now: You’ve brought up an interesting point: Our students and graduates don’t have the skills we need to develop this field and become a leader. But, we have a very comprehensive education system, so what are we missing?
Dr Ranjan: I think we need to do something different fundamentally to be a leader in innovation. Yes, we are doing a great job in terms of GDP. But, in terms of innovation, we are still behind others. I believe we're likely in the top 20 or 50 most innovative leaders, and the same rankings apply to our universities. When you look at the top 100 universities in the world, they’re ranked based on their research, not the number of graduates or PhDs.
We have exceptionally talented students, but research truly defines the rankings of top universities. We are actually feeding other international universities. Our studies who belong in IITs are moving to the U.S. and European universities and are doing fantastic jobs there. They are the top rankers. From there, they go straight to whichever pharma or IT company hiring them.
Today, the CEOs of so many top companies are Indians. So, this is where I think we are losing out. The basic difference is that this present generation is not our generation. For the current generation, the ecosystem and work environment are also very important, not only their salary. You cannot just hire them by only offering a huge salary. If they are not mentally satisfied, they will not stay. That's what is lacking in our country and that's why most of our best students go abroad.
As I have worked in many nations, I can say: it is very difficult to get that environment here. It's been 27 years since I came back to India. Still, we are nowhere near creating that kind of environment for our students and professionals. The work environment in other countries is totally different, and these are a few things we need to change. Innovation cannot happen with that typical mindset or career path–you know: MSc, PhD and then the industry job. You need people who think out of the box.
Pharma Now: I understand, and I think a lot of people will agree with you. But, I’d like to circle back to your decision to come back to India and join Dr. Reddy’s in 1995. There, you took a very unique decision: to start drug discovery. So, can you share how that went?
Dr. Ranjan: In those days, the challenge was the biology field. The chemical field in India was very well established. For example, at the time (1995), if I ordered something in my lab in the U.S. in the evening, it would be delivered by the next morning. Here, it would take one week. Similarly, for biological samples, temperature maintenance is very important. So in those days, I used to order enzymes, and after seven days, they would be delivered. I would open the box, there was no ice, all water and my enzymes were floating in that water. Can you imagine: my seven days are wasted! So, in such a competitive field, when you lose seven days, what is the point? That was the situation there in 1995. Similarly even for animal studies that we need to do in drug discovery. But, there used to be no good lab here to get good quality animals.
Pharma Now: Being a pharma person myself, I can’t imagine how difficult it would have been. So, how did you tackle such problems?
Dr. Ranjan: So, in Dr. Reddy’s, we started breeding our own animals. It was all because of Dr Anji Reddy. He said, “Yeah, go ahead. I’ll have to set it up, but I’m ready to set it up. You guys do it [animal breeding] here.” So, in those days, we used to import animals from Jackson Labs as the core colony. I used to go to the airport to collect them. We used to bring them, start breeding them, and propagate the colonies. So, after a while, I had enough animals for experiments.
Even getting these animals was a huge task. They [airport staff] used to pull the carts and throw animals on the tarmac. In the first few shipments, half of the animals were dead before they arrived at our facility. I thought, This is too much because this is a criminal offense–you are killing these animals!
So, this is the way we had to do our research. To be frank, I used to think many times “why the hell did I come back here?” But today, I am happy. We suffered a lot, but today, at least we have built a system where biological research can be done. All these biologics that you see today, they would never have been possible if this ecosystem and supply chain were not properly built.
But, I think that there is an issue. In China or Singapore, all raw materials are available there, they are making them, and very few are imported. But, in our country, everything has to be imported. That's why we had so much trouble during COVID, we had to import everything. So, if there is a disruption in the supply chain, we are in serious trouble. That is where we are lacking.
Thankfully, the government has started now to look into this aspect for pharma and biopharma. The Department of Biotechnology and Department of Pharmaceutics are actively working in this area to sort it out.
Pharma Now: I have a question. The Government is taking a lot of efforts and the ecosystem has been set up. But, do you think the new generation needs to shift their thought process toward innovation and R&D? Nowadays, India is considered as a service industry, we all are focused on providing a service and getting a lot of money from the service. Do you think we need to shift our mindset for achieving innovation?
Dr. Ranjan: I have had a lot of discussion on this topic with students and professors of IIT and other places. So, there are two things: First is tunnel vision. The first thing my students ask is, “Now you are teaching us this subject. We'll pass the course. Then, where will we get internships and how can we get a job?” So, that's tunnel vision, typical tunnel vision. So, we need to break out of this mindset. The second thing is support. In India, we have very bright students who have access to a lot of information—using mobile phones of course. But, when you have such students, we have to provide them an environment to grow. We also have to tell them, “yes, we can provide you an environment where you can work and innovate”.
Pharma Now: I think this will change slowly. I’m sure since you’ve come back you’ve seen a large shift. I think this will help us move up the value chain.
Dr. Ranjan: We cannot go up the value chain in any field easily. In any field, if you want to go up the value chain, you have to have an innovative product that gives you money and recognition. Recently, in one of the Council of Scientific & Industrial Research Institute and the Research Council meetings, the Secretary of the Indian Government said that our Prime Minister wanted each of the central labs to come up with one idea or one product that will bring global recognition—like Chandrayaan. So, you know this is a slow process, but we’ll surely see more change.
Pharma Now: Yes, fingers crossed, but I’m sure our scientists and leaders and young minds will definitely come up with products that will make India stand out. Do you think we’re tackling the same problems as others?
Dr. Ranjan: Yes, and no. Most people are obsessed with technology. They think: what techniques will I use in biopharma? Which techniques can I use to understand the primary structure or glycosylation? But, we need to look beyond this.
In any meeting with an FDA representative, they discuss one major issue: Data integrity. Data Integrity means you are hiding what you're doing wrong, which not only gives a bad impression of that organization but also of the country. But, have you heard of any universities discussing this topic?
So, whenever I talk to the students, I tell them to avoid the ongoing craze among the companies which is “batch release”. You can somehow manage it today, but it will be identified somewhere down the line, and you will get caught. In this case, young people have to stand up and say, “No, I cannot sign” because at the end of the day, the technician signs, then the manager signs, finally the Director VP signs. I have faith in this generation because they are not scared to tell you to your face if they don't like something. If they think something is not wrong, they should correct it there itself.
Recently, in a conference, our DCGI was talking about two groups. One group was the top 20 companies whose whole culture is like multinationals because they deal only with them. They don't care about DCGI guidelines. They follow them because it helps them to get through DCGI. But in the second group, there are other 200 companies. Over there, it is a serious issue. Seeing one after another cases, I mean, it's a shame, and these things actually affect even the students. So, bright students think, “Where shall I go? These places where I have to live in this kind of environment?” And then another issue is the culture. Today, the academic culture is changing, but still many of our academics have this thinking, “whatever the professor says, that's it, you can't protest the professor”.
Because I worked in Boston and I tell you: in any meeting there, we used to have 15-20 nobel laureates. A first year student could stand up and tell them if he doesn't like any data and nobody will say, “I’m a nobel laureate and you’re criticizing my data.” This concept is not there. You are a scientist, and scientifically, you have every right to criticize the data, and if you're wrong then I will convince you and I will tell you why you are wrong. This is the culture for innovation.
Pharma Now: I agree. I think slowly, things will change and we’ll also have an innovative mindset.
Dr. Ranjan: I think, now is the time for India. We should correct these loopholes, and then nobody can stop us. Our students are going all over the world and developing those countries. So, why can’t they do it here? The only thing we lack is the environment and culture.
Pharma Now: Yes, I agree. I also think we’re slowly creating a culture that’s open to innovation, change, and flexibility. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us Dr. Ranjan. It was an honor speaking with you on behalf of Pharma Now.
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